Thank you to everyone who's taken my poll on journalling preferences. It's still open so if you haven't taken it yet, please come on over. At this point, I just want to take a look at a few of the (hopefully) interesting things I noticed.
DISCLAIMER
I'm not a math person and it's been years (decades, actually) since I last dove into the social sciences. These are just my impressions, completely open to interpretation/discussion.
THE NUMBERS, SUCH AS THEY ARE...
As of 2am EST, 217 people have polled. Of those, 67% consider InsaneJournal their primary journaling home (yay!) and about half of those (36%) only post at IJ. Another 30% regularly crosspost; only 6% said that they post here "when they remember" (I expected that number to be higher -- must be just my flist).
80% of respondents said their flists are mostly different (64%) or completely different (16%). In the comments, many people said that their LJ flists have more RL friends. This seems to point to LJ's treatment of fandom and how hard it is to convince non-fandom people that there's a problem (only pedophiles need be concerned, after all).
I apologise for my wording on some of these questions. When I asked, "Where do you prefer to read your flist?" my intent was to discover which venue people preferred, whether it be IJ or LJ or a news reader. (For instance, I prefer reading at IJ because I can choose from 494 more icons than at LJ.) But from the comments, I think many interpreted this as which flist they most enjoy reading. Several commenters said LJ (24%) was preferred because it was more active; 43% said they prefer reading at IJ.
Interestingly, very few people said that this latest announcement would change their journaling habits: only 2% said that they would begin crossposting at LJ, and the single person who said that she would return to LJ because of their new policy commented that "It's not really a question of 'returning' to LJ, as I never left" and that she only uses IJ as a backup.
One of the reasons for not changing journaling habits was also poorly worded. I'd intended "Trust in LJ" to be checked if you would continue/begin crossposting or return to LJ. 15% checked "Trust in LJ" as a determinant, far higher than the very few people who said they would start crossposting or return. Quite a few people explained in the comments that they'd checked that item, but actually meant that they did not trust LJ, so that 15% number should be taken with a grain of salt.
But I think it's very telling that the #1 reason that people stay at IJ is because of![[info]](http://www.insanejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif)
squeaky. 64% said that was a determinant in their journal preference, far above the next indicator (permanent IJ account, 44%). das_dingsi remarks, "squeaky's behaviour shouldn't be underestimated as an influence on people's willingness to stay on IJ. It wasn't the only reason, of course... but when I followed the discussions, it became clear that users were far more forgiving about site issues and the trouble with the server move, because they always got a quick update on things, or a detailed explanation what happened, afterwards. Or he announced what he was going to do with the site, and how long it would take approx. Transparency was something they had missed on LJ, and got aplenty on IJ."
Other reasons determining where people will post include friends/comms at LJ, friends/asylums at IJ, and IJ icons all came in at around the same 43% mark.
SOME IMPRESSIONS
The question of trust/distrust was the most frequent comment, appearing time and time again. Some, likesweetsorcery have just had enough: "They could tell me the sky was blue, and I'd go outside and check."
LOTS of folks are saying "nice words, we'll see," likevakkotaur who says: "The recent announcement is about a year overdue to be taken at face-value. As it is, I very much have a wait and see what they really do attitude." And elmyraemilie contrasts her feelings about LJ and IJ: "Their history of saying one thing and doing another is not erased by one (and I almost hate to admit it) sensible-sounding announcement ... I like the way IJ is run, and if I ever meet Squeaky face to face I'm going to give him a big ol' hug. I certainly can't say that about LJ, not even before Strikethrough."
Others don't think the latest policy changes address the key issues.xie_xie_xie says: "The 'adult content flagging' is idiotic. It locks down fandom to the point where it becomes, over time, invisible ... So newbies, people who don't have LJs or don't have them yet, don't even see us."
Personally, I left LJ because of their abysmal communications/customer service.elfwreck says, "...after two years of beyond-atrocious customer service, they've finally instituted the policy that is reasonable and sensible and should've been there in the first place? And gee, all it took was two years, a twenty percent drop in user activity, a dozen or two News posts with maxed-out angry comments, thousands of blogger complaints, and a few attempts to contact the State Attorney General and the BBB about fraud! Wow, of COURSE we should go back to LJ--they listen to their users!"
There are also more than a few people who think there's something else coming down the pike. Paranoia? Only time will tell.
This is not to say that IJ is paradise, of course. Many people bemoaned the fact that they can't get friends to move here (some even with the lure of paid time); others that their fandoms were still on LJ. Many people remarked that it was slower here, both on their flists and in the asylums, and that's why they still maintain a connection with LJ.
This was a comment I heard a lot during LJ's one-day strike. I commented to several people then that even though there were fewer people at IJ, it felt like the people who were here were more active. Thanks toelfwreck who pointed me to some stats at LJ (supplemented by IJ's stats page), that's not just anecdotal anymore. Check this out!
Over the past year, despite over 2.5 million new users, the number of people updating at LJ has dropped significantly. Compare that to IJ's numbers: More than twice as many people have updated in the last 30 days, with almost as big a percentage jump for more recent updates. We're dealing with a much smaller number (although growing fast! I joined in March 2007 when there were 38K people, and in just a little over a year there are 230K!) but I think these numbers suggest that people are putting in more effort to make it work.
Several people like have remarked that they're willing to take chances here that they might not have at LJ.seanlily says that "IJ is feeling more like a home and a place I can safely share my thoughts and not feel like they are being launched into the great void. LJ feels huge to me and hard to get to know people, I try a bit, but I feel like I'm stepping into established relationships so I'm always the odd one out."
Others compared IJ to a "blank slate" where they felt more comfortable friending people or stepping outside of the niches they'd established at LJ. Still others appreciated the relative peace here, likebridgetmkenna who says, "Yes, there are less people on the whole here, but there is very little wank, if any, and the people that are here are lovely."
And finally,jackandahat had perhaps my favourite comment from the whole shebang: "...in a way, my online life is like where I grew up. IJ is my tiny hometown, where shops shut on a Wednesday afternoon and Sunday, there's no record store, and sometimes there's a bookstore on the market, but you keep hoping for more to turn up. JF is the next town over, which was twice the size, and you could get CDs and books. LJ is the city, which was kind of dirty and nasty, but you went anyway because they sold everything from hair dye to textbooks to sex toys."
By the way, I decided to put up this poll because for some time I've debated whether to start cross-posting at LJ. I've decided I won't. InsaneJournal is my online home. I'll continue posting links to my IJ fic journal in the communities there (anything to get people to read my stories!), and I'll follow the few friends who've made an effort to follow my journal over here; I don't want to lose touch with them. But I've moved to the small town now and I want to figure out this neighbourhood instead of driving back into the city all the time!
DISCLAIMER
I'm not a math person and it's been years (decades, actually) since I last dove into the social sciences. These are just my impressions, completely open to interpretation/discussion.
THE NUMBERS, SUCH AS THEY ARE...
As of 2am EST, 217 people have polled. Of those, 67% consider InsaneJournal their primary journaling home (yay!) and about half of those (36%) only post at IJ. Another 30% regularly crosspost; only 6% said that they post here "when they remember" (I expected that number to be higher -- must be just my flist).
80% of respondents said their flists are mostly different (64%) or completely different (16%). In the comments, many people said that their LJ flists have more RL friends. This seems to point to LJ's treatment of fandom and how hard it is to convince non-fandom people that there's a problem (only pedophiles need be concerned, after all).
I apologise for my wording on some of these questions. When I asked, "Where do you prefer to read your flist?" my intent was to discover which venue people preferred, whether it be IJ or LJ or a news reader. (For instance, I prefer reading at IJ because I can choose from 494 more icons than at LJ.) But from the comments, I think many interpreted this as which flist they most enjoy reading. Several commenters said LJ (24%) was preferred because it was more active; 43% said they prefer reading at IJ.
Interestingly, very few people said that this latest announcement would change their journaling habits: only 2% said that they would begin crossposting at LJ, and the single person who said that she would return to LJ because of their new policy commented that "It's not really a question of 'returning' to LJ, as I never left" and that she only uses IJ as a backup.
One of the reasons for not changing journaling habits was also poorly worded. I'd intended "Trust in LJ" to be checked if you would continue/begin crossposting or return to LJ. 15% checked "Trust in LJ" as a determinant, far higher than the very few people who said they would start crossposting or return. Quite a few people explained in the comments that they'd checked that item, but actually meant that they did not trust LJ, so that 15% number should be taken with a grain of salt.
But I think it's very telling that the #1 reason that people stay at IJ is because of
squeaky. 64% said that was a determinant in their journal preference, far above the next indicator (permanent IJ account, 44%). das_dingsi remarks, "squeaky's behaviour shouldn't be underestimated as an influence on people's willingness to stay on IJ. It wasn't the only reason, of course... but when I followed the discussions, it became clear that users were far more forgiving about site issues and the trouble with the server move, because they always got a quick update on things, or a detailed explanation what happened, afterwards. Or he announced what he was going to do with the site, and how long it would take approx. Transparency was something they had missed on LJ, and got aplenty on IJ."Other reasons determining where people will post include friends/comms at LJ, friends/asylums at IJ, and IJ icons all came in at around the same 43% mark.
SOME IMPRESSIONS
The question of trust/distrust was the most frequent comment, appearing time and time again. Some, like
sweetsorcery have just had enough: "They could tell me the sky was blue, and I'd go outside and check."LOTS of folks are saying "nice words, we'll see," like
vakkotaur who says: "The recent announcement is about a year overdue to be taken at face-value. As it is, I very much have a wait and see what they really do attitude." And elmyraemilie contrasts her feelings about LJ and IJ: "Their history of saying one thing and doing another is not erased by one (and I almost hate to admit it) sensible-sounding announcement ... I like the way IJ is run, and if I ever meet Squeaky face to face I'm going to give him a big ol' hug. I certainly can't say that about LJ, not even before Strikethrough."Others don't think the latest policy changes address the key issues.
xie_xie_xie says: "The 'adult content flagging' is idiotic. It locks down fandom to the point where it becomes, over time, invisible ... So newbies, people who don't have LJs or don't have them yet, don't even see us."Personally, I left LJ because of their abysmal communications/customer service.
elfwreck says, "...after two years of beyond-atrocious customer service, they've finally instituted the policy that is reasonable and sensible and should've been there in the first place? And gee, all it took was two years, a twenty percent drop in user activity, a dozen or two News posts with maxed-out angry comments, thousands of blogger complaints, and a few attempts to contact the State Attorney General and the BBB about fraud! Wow, of COURSE we should go back to LJ--they listen to their users!"There are also more than a few people who think there's something else coming down the pike. Paranoia? Only time will tell.
This is not to say that IJ is paradise, of course. Many people bemoaned the fact that they can't get friends to move here (some even with the lure of paid time); others that their fandoms were still on LJ. Many people remarked that it was slower here, both on their flists and in the asylums, and that's why they still maintain a connection with LJ.
This was a comment I heard a lot during LJ's one-day strike. I commented to several people then that even though there were fewer people at IJ, it felt like the people who were here were more active. Thanks to
elfwreck who pointed me to some stats at LJ (supplemented by IJ's stats page), that's not just anecdotal anymore. Check this out!Over the past year, despite over 2.5 million new users, the number of people updating at LJ has dropped significantly. Compare that to IJ's numbers: More than twice as many people have updated in the last 30 days, with almost as big a percentage jump for more recent updates. We're dealing with a much smaller number (although growing fast! I joined in March 2007 when there were 38K people, and in just a little over a year there are 230K!) but I think these numbers suggest that people are putting in more effort to make it work.
Several people like have remarked that they're willing to take chances here that they might not have at LJ.
seanlily says that "IJ is feeling more like a home and a place I can safely share my thoughts and not feel like they are being launched into the great void. LJ feels huge to me and hard to get to know people, I try a bit, but I feel like I'm stepping into established relationships so I'm always the odd one out." Others compared IJ to a "blank slate" where they felt more comfortable friending people or stepping outside of the niches they'd established at LJ. Still others appreciated the relative peace here, like
bridgetmkenna who says, "Yes, there are less people on the whole here, but there is very little wank, if any, and the people that are here are lovely."And finally,
jackandahat had perhaps my favourite comment from the whole shebang: "...in a way, my online life is like where I grew up. IJ is my tiny hometown, where shops shut on a Wednesday afternoon and Sunday, there's no record store, and sometimes there's a bookstore on the market, but you keep hoping for more to turn up. JF is the next town over, which was twice the size, and you could get CDs and books. LJ is the city, which was kind of dirty and nasty, but you went anyway because they sold everything from hair dye to textbooks to sex toys."By the way, I decided to put up this poll because for some time I've debated whether to start cross-posting at LJ. I've decided I won't. InsaneJournal is my online home. I'll continue posting links to my IJ fic journal in the communities there (anything to get people to read my stories!), and I'll follow the few friends who've made an effort to follow my journal over here; I don't want to lose touch with them. But I've moved to the small town now and I want to figure out this neighbourhood instead of driving back into the city all the time!
That's exactly how I've felt in the 11 months I've been here.
Hi, I'm Randa. I've seen your posts in the refugees asylum, and we have several friends on common. I've added you. Hope you don't mind.
Don't mind at all! I'll happily add you back. Cheap Trick, eh?
I'm, most likely, the biggest Cheap Trick fan you will ever meet.
I've kind of been that way in my move here, because I moved right when I was getting into a new fandom. Didn't know anybody, so just plopped down. ;)
I want more of my LJ flist to move over too, but I think it's a hopeless case. They're entrenched.
Since you're the only Cheap Trick fan I think I know, I think you're most likely right. Looking forward to getting to know you!
I'm looking forward to getting to know you too! If you have questions about who's who and what's what in my little corner of IJ feel free to ask.
In sci-fi convention fandom, people talk about SMOF: Secret Masters of Fandom, the people who supposedly know everyone & run all the cons.
However, the LJ platform is great for chatting, announcements, rp, and other short term sorts of bursts. That's what I do here.
I feel more comfortable here. Its like LJ was in 2002 where you didn't have to lock everything, stupidity wasn't rampant and you could actually get to know people somewhat. I can not even make my fannish list there (although I don't have one as I deleted my journal) doesn't see a problem and almost none have come here. So I just go on as I was. Maybe it's not as bad since I am in small fandoms (In one I'm a fandom of 1 I think :) ) so I'm used to inactivity, but I just hope when the axe falls they don't cringe at my I told you so.
This latest business, well I just have no trust left for them. They are selling their user's eyes and content yet everyone seems to forget that. Yes Squeak has ads but its not the same sort of blatant disregard for the userbase and they've never been a secret. There is no censoring, only the censorship of sense which I have to say seems to be here in quantity versus at LJ where idiocy is the norm. Maybe its just the size differences but I haven't run into nearly as many entitled asshats here.
I totally agree! I didn't get there until Jan 2004, but journals were still unlocked then. I would hate to be a newbie on LJ now, it'd be so hard to find any friends.
I just hope when the axe falls they don't cringe at my I told you so.
*snickers* I'll join you in that. I cannot understand why anybody involved in fandom can stay at LJ. They've proven that they're not a friend of fandom.
Maybe its just the size differences but I haven't run into nearly as many entitled asshats here.
It seems to me that people are pretty protective of IJ, and there is less toleration of wank. I am fine with the entitled asshats staying over there!
I joined LJ in 2001, used it regularly with both my personal journal and my fanfic journal. I built a lot of relationships there and contributed to communities. But last year when Strikethrough happened, I couldn't just ignore it. I wasn't a fanartist, but I wrote all kinds of fanfiction and suddenly I just didn't trust them anymore (and everything they've done since then has proven those feelings to be justified.)
When I came here, I bought two permanent accounts with extra userpics for the fanfic journal and insane userpics for my personal journal. My wife also got the permanent account/insane userpics. I love the cozy feeling of IJ and how
When I moved, many of my LJ Friends made journals here to keep up with my new journal, but I don't think most of them remember to check it because I rarely get comments (or they're too lazy to log in, take your pick.) I bought permanent accounts for three of them, but one never uses it, the other is never online anyway, and the third tries to crosspost, but still puts more posts on LJ that I can't respond to (because I don't want to give LJ my traffic.)
Making new Friends here will be harder than on LJ because when I started there, my LJ was unlocked. Then I had issues with a stalker that followed me from Yahoogroups to LJ, so I had to make it Friends Only there. She followed me to IJ, too, so my journal here will also have to stay locked.
Thanks again for the poll and sorry for writing a book in your comments. XD
I am sorry you're plagued with a stalker! That's troubling. I never wanted to lock down my journal but I've never had to deal with that before. I might think differently. (My LJ is all locked down now, and dormant.)
How's the anime community at IJ? Is there any? Two of the folks I bought paid time for are big in the anime world at LJ -- they post a little here, but most of the time forget. I'd love to see them come over, but they're less interesting in building something new than just enjoying what they have, I'm afraid.
I have to agree with the commenter who said that IJ feels more safe and it's a place where they can go into new territory. It struck me that I've been doing that a lot since I got here. Broadening my flist, my interests and my mind :-) Because participation is just so much more about the fun and sharing over here. I love that.
(II need one of those IJ-love icons :-D)
I'm glad you're venturing out more. I know I've been doing that, too. I've participated in
I really, really like
There are some icons here and here. I know that
I crossed into stuff like joining a
Thanks for the links :-D
Okay, then it wasn't just me who had that impression!
As for preference of where to read my friends list by style, that's a non-issue as it's possible to configure that to be identical, which means that the distinguishing characteristics are the number of folks and level of activity.
IJ certainly does have the more close-knit, friendly feeling to it. And yes,
As for preference of where to read my friends list by style, that's a non-issue as it's possible to configure that to be identical...
Well, not entirely. I have 500 icons here vs. 6 there. And I love my icons.
I agree about the personal feel here. With
Also, tasty stats are tasty, and I wasn't sure if you've seen this:
http://2718.us/lj-stat/
I'm glad to see that the majority of people will be sticking around to IJ.
And people do love
I'm like, duh, people love
/end weird tangent
Anyway thanks! I love how you included different people's comments in the entry. It's a great round-up!
Baaaaaaa.
Wow, and we shouldn't like him for that?
See, I really get that impression from some people over there, like we're all being hoodwinked or something because we don't just blindly accept whatever LJ dishes out. *shrugs* Whatever.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Unless the Russians drop the big one, that is!
Never underestimate them!
Did you ever get the chance to watch QAFUK?
I added to your poll numbers, by the way. ^^
~Mara~
I hope you can get to somewhere you want to be. ;)
It's always *felt* that way to me, even though my flist is (or was) smaller, I got to know people quickly because they were posting more and sharing lots more.
*loves it here*
People in small towns are.... nuts... to put it bluntly. They are the big fish in a small pond and can't see outside their little bubble. In a big town it's easier to avoid drama because you don't really know anyone. That's been my experience anyway. Take it with a grain of salt. All I can say for sure though is that I'd NEVER EVER EVER go back to living in a small town. I'm sticking to the big city.
That said, that mentality in no way applies to lj and it's clones. IJ is clearly superior is some aspects. I'm just saying... i wouldn't compare IJ to a small town... those who have lived in small towns would most likely be put off by the comparison XD
I also have noticed IJ has a different feel. I occasionally get into flame wars with mutual friends on LJ and there's drama and stuff. But IJ feels nicer for some reason, people are polite to each other. It's better, I hope it stays that way.